>Oh God, Part I
>Some of you know that my family and I are churchgoers.
At least, we try to be churchgoers. Okay, we desperately want to be churchgoers. We talk about going to church every single week. What more do you people want from me?!
Like many, many, many of you out there, I guess you could say we are disillusioned. My faith is firmly intact. My religion? Not so much. Honestly, church has created one struggle after another for me, starting from the time I was dunked in a sanctified swimming pool at the front of the First Baptist Church sanctuary in Gainesville, Georgia at the age of seven.
Several years ago, I thought I’d finally found a solution to my religion problems when we started attending a church my entire family loved, with a doctrine I could accept, a laid back congregation I enjoyed getting to know, and an inspiring leader who was probably the best public speaker I’ve ever heard in my life. As an added bonus, the music was incredible. Everyone on stage was a professional singer or session musician. The leader of the music program was a Grammy award-winning singer/songwriter. Country music celebrities regularly took the stage on Sundays to perform. And while I’m not strictly a country music fan, it didn’t take a genius to realize that those singers were famous for a reason. For the first time ever, I looked forward to going to church. I felt good after attending each week. Really good. Some weeks, it was the best thing that happened to me.
And then it all went to hell.
There was trouble between the pastor and the elders, trouble the majority of the congregation had no idea was occurring under the surface. There was an embarrassing Sunday (thankfully, we were out of town) when the pastor wasn’t allowed in the church and instead chose to stand outside in the parking lot and cause a scene as people went inside. There was media coverage. There were meetings with angry churchgoers shouting at the elders. There was a congregational schism, with some staying, some going to attend services the pastor began holding in a movie theater, and many never coming back.
We tried to stick with the church, but it just wasn’t the same. After about a year, we decided we just couldn’t go any longer. We no longer looked forward to it. It had become a chore, instead of an inspiration. Deciding to change churches has been hard, though. I chose that church with the intention of raising my kids in it. Two of my family members were baptized there. The thought of going to a new church, with new people inviting us to their Sunday School class and calling us on the phone to ask why we hadn’t been attending in a while, and maybe judging me for my writing, well that has given us a serious case of the heebie-jeebies.
Also? I’m still angry. Really angry. That church was my stepdaughters’ first real religious experience, and they enjoyed it. They looked up to the pastor. And in the end, as they watched everything that happened, they felt the same crushing disappointment we did as a very good thing got ruined by egos.
I seriously worry now that their budding faith was potentially crushed for life, that they’ll view church as nothing more than one epic fail. These days, they groan when we announce we’re going to church. They’re totally not into it, which I realize is common for teenagers, but was not always the case for mine. And I wonder why those men at our old church couldn’t rise above their differences and keep a unique and special church experience intact, for the sake of my girls and thousands of others in the congregation just like them.
Recently, though Hubs and I have started attending a new church and we like it. We like its philosophy and we like its pastor, partly because he’s smart and sincere and has really good ideas, and also maybe partly because he has a faux hawk and one of those chin growths. See?
No, seriously. He’s ordained.Until Friday.
On Friday, the unpreachy preacher found this blog. And if I thought it was embarrassing when my 83-year-old Grandmother Chicken started reading this blog (Hi, Grandmother Chicken!), imagine how I felt when the unpreachy preacher found it! Particularly when he commented on the redshirting post in order to inform me that he had redshirted his son this year!
OH FU….DGE.
I believe I have offended my non-preachy preacher, which we all know means I am going directly to hell.
So if you pray, perhaps you could throw in a little request for the redemption of my mortal soul? And could you please assure God that even though I wrote that I thought redshirting was irritating?
It was a TOTAL LIE.
I love parents who redshirt. I think they’re fierce! I want to buy them all a round of Vitamin Water! Disregard that post, people! Please!
My eternal life is at stake!
>I haven’t been to church in years, aside from a wedding or two. It was my unfortunate experience, (and that of my mother’s) that church can be much like high school, silly “rivalries” and caddy females. After so many incidents celebrating our faith with these people became a chore, so we stopped going.And your Pastor shouldn’t take your “red shirting” blog personal…..opinions are like assholes….but am I the only one that feels a Pastor would be a person less likely to “red shirt” thier kids?
>I had a pastor that looked kinda like that guy. Don’t think he’s ever read my blog though…I think the last time I actually attended church services was at boot camp, to get away from the drill instructors.No wait…maybe there was another time later on..? Huh. Oh well.
>Now that’s funny! Plus, I get it. Although we live in the “buckle” of the “Bible Belt”, it’s tough. We’re searching ourselves for the church where we believe God wants us to learn, serve and grow with Him. Hang in there! Thankfully, where two or more are gathered there He is also (right at my kitchen table).
>I grew up (and still am) Methodist. Fresh out of small town high school, I elected to attend a small town Methodist college. It was there that I learned that preachers (and other church-related workers) are JUST human beings. Now, many years later, some of my classmates are the “movers and shakers” in the denomination in this area… but I still see them as people, not to be placed on a pedestal.I say all of that because I am thankful I was raised to think for myself… even when it came to faith issues. I have had issues (changed churches) when other humans with whom I attended felt it was their place to judge me or others as to our worthiness to be there. Too often, “religion” is hijacked by power-seekers with ulterior motives.Keep looking… you’ll find the right church home!
>This was hysterical.As a former youth pastor…. and this might not be BIBLICALLY SOUND… but find a church with some smokin’ Christian young men, and you’ll find that your teen girls are suddenly way more excited to show up at Sunday School/youth group.Heh heh. Hey – God uses everything!
>Pesky eternal damnation. :-)I’ll be prayin for you! … just as soon as I find a church that I “fit” with…
>Praying for y’all.It is a difficult thing to find the ‘PFC’ (perfect fit church) but worth it once you do.Pastors are just people too, maybe they have better connections (heh), but they’re just people. Hopefully he didn’t take it too personally and is a good enough person to understand, your blog, your life, your opinions.I hope it works for you hon.
>WooHoo! We’ve been going to CrossPoint for a year now, and love it!!! Punky and Bruiser would LOVE KidStuff if you can make it. Amy and Madeleine have been going and the girls love seeing each other.
>Lindsay,I grew up Catholic (including Catholic schools from kindergarten through 12th grade) and know exactly the feeling of being completely and totally out of place in a church. I have since looked around a bit, testing the waters of other denominations, but nothing has seemed right to me.So, I’ve settled on the idea that the fiance and I will raise our future children to love God and live good lives, but unless we find something fabulous and perfect, we’re just going to be non-churchgoing Christians.Our feeling is that religion and faith are all well and good when it’s a relationship between you and God, but when people and egos get involved, it’s bad news (as evidenced by your schism ordeal).As for offending your pastor with your post, I would hope that he’s tolerant (not really the right word, but all I can come up with at the moment) enough to realize that not everyone thinks and acts the same as he does. I hope.Good luck! 🙂
>At least your pastor *looks* hip! I quit going to church (Presby) in high school because they treated all teenagers like they were “bad” – doing things they shouldn’t be (which, apparently, I was the only one who *wasn’t*!). I have faith and am spiritual, but I don’t need any other human judging me – that’s for God to do. And besides, when it comes to religion, they’re either all right or all wrong; you’re going to hell anyway! 😉
>If I could find a church with a pastor who looks like that, I’d be sitting in the front row every Sunday. Yum!
>How funny–I was just going to write a similar post about religion: I felt like a complete loser on Sunday when I watched my brand-new neighbors from Alabama walk out to their mini-van in their Sunday finest to go to church. It was their third day in TN.I am Episcopalian, but have not been active in years. I watched my parents’ reputations get destroyed in our church when they got involved in church politics. I worry that I am cheating my daughters out of learning about God so that they can make their own decision when they grow up. However, I just want to GO to church. I don’t actually want to be a member and get involved. Churches don’t like that.
>Lindsay, I actually go to your former church, but luckily I didn’t move to Bellevue until after schism occurred, so I missed all that stuff. While they still need to beef up a couple of areas (including small groups), they are working on this now. I know lots of people who love your new church.Getting my husband to actually go there was impressive. He was born and raised Catholic. I never thought he would even consider going anywhere else. This all erupted last year when he took my then just turned 4 year old to Mass. Daycare during mass goes to age 3. So my son had to sit with him and me through service because they refused to let him into day care. Literally, I was getting NOTHING out of church. Sure, I don’t think you have to go to church to be a christian, but I just felt so sad all the time that I wasn’t getting anything out of it. I basically stopped going to mass. I know that 50 years ago little toddlers would sit quietly during a 2 hour church service. But mine couldn’t, and they were miserable. Now, they have Sunday school during church, which is mighty fine with me. And my husband, after going to one church service, enjoyed it more than he imagined he would. And, btw, we would have considered your current church, but my husband likes his church to be as close as possible.I’m glad that this is part 1. There are so many aspects of this to talk about. How about churches supporting famililies with small children? Lots of good topics here.
>i think this is absolutely hilarious… since i’m married to the unpreachy preacher! too funny! i found your blog on friday and sent pete the link. we both laughed out loud as we read… and took no offense, don’t worry, you’re still going to heaven! 🙂
>The whole church thing is awkward. I am Catholic who attended a convent school from age 9 through 18. Lots of guilt. Lots of pressure to attend church. I stopped going once I got to college…a nonCatholic college thank you very much!Now that I have children I have made an effort to have all three baptized, and two have had their first Communion. We go to church about 2 times per month. My children and I go to a monthly family religious program at the church, more preferable to Sunday school on Sunday mornings. So, I am raising my children in my own version of Catholicism. I feel that they need a religion, and Catholic is what they are. Still feel guilty about not going to church regularly, but what can you do.
>i don’t understand. If there are so many people you don’t want reading your blog.. and apparently there is because this is just one of many of you complaining about “someone” coming across your blog you didn’t want reading certain posts.. then why do you do it so publicly? I say stop complaining about it, cuz it’s getting a bit annoying.
>Ok this will get me into trouble- but if your pastor “redshirted” for sports and/or academic edge- then I say he ought to be the one embarrassed- that’s the most idiotic thing I ever heard!!- next to church being held in a movie theather!!! If this church is a good fit for your family-then keep going,You can hold your head high- you were just saying it like it is!
>well he’s cute. i’ll give him that. but if he was offended by your red shirt post (i’m offended by the parents that do that — my daughter is one of the youngest and smallest in her class and that’s without parents purposely holding their kids back — as kids we knew about those held back, purposely or academically) he should just come out and say so.hi to your cute pastor for me. 😉
>not only is pete reading it…he now showed it to me…i’m his assistant. yep. you are now being passed around the office like the flu. wait, not the flu, because the flu is bad, and you are quite charming and witty and good. so, maybe like those amazing cookies that one girl always brings? yes. good like that. anne jacksonflowerdust.net
>This is cracking me up! I love your blog. I love it for two reasons.1) Your entertaining!2) Your real. Cross Point is certainly not a perfect church. I’m certainly not a perfect pastor. I’m actually kind of jacked up most of the time.I understand how you guys feel. Most of my life has been a love/hate relationship with the church.I hope you guys will be able to find a place you can plug in and make yourself at home.Let me know if we can ever do anything to help. :)And by the way. I wasn’t offended by your post on “red-shirting” at all. I thought it was brilliant.
>Oh how funny! I’m sure if your non-preachy pastor is as non-preachy as you say he is, he isn’t offended!
>I was brought up Catholic. Baptized in the Church, made my Holy Communion, etc. I went to Catholic School for 12 years. I was fortunate to have gone to one of the California Mission churches when I was growing up. I think it made for a unique experience.However, when I got older I started to drift from the church for obvious reasons. I can’t stand what the Catholic Church has allowed; it makes me sick that they turned a blind eye to so much.But it was when my husband I got married that I really gave up. He was divorced so in the eyes of the church, our marriage isn’t valid. It’s a shame that they’re so stuck in old rules and values.We’ve tried to look for a new church (not Catholic) but we haven’t found anywhere we’re comfortable yet.But like you, my faith is intact, but not so much my religion.
>Too funny! Found your blog through Pete. My family has attended this church for 5 years and absolutely loved it! Unfortunately, we had to move to St. Louis this summer and are currently trying to find a church that fits the Crosspoint bill. It’s hard to not compare every church to crosspoint – I’ll never find another one. Rest assured, you can’t offend these people – they are wonderful! Enjoy it – I sure miss it!
>Joyce- she is joking.Lindsey- I am glad you found a place where your family can be comfortable…it is truly important to feel open to worship and be able to invite friends to a place that you enjoy to be.At the rate that Pastor Pete seems to be sharing your blog link, the whole congregation is gonna want you up front this Sunday giving your testimony…can I get an AMEN?
>Isn’t that thing on his face called a “soul patch”? So perhaps you have already been saved. He is yummy cute….maybe you should join the choir???My faith is intact, my ability to get myself to church…not so much. But Nana always said “God knows where you are”. Hope that yummy pastor doesn’t read these comments 🙂
>My husband and I love Crosspoint. We haven’t been in a couple weeks due to being out of town but it is the first church we have been to in a long time where we actually look forward to going. I’m glad you and your family have found a place that you enjoy. Hope you will keep coming!Jen
>You know, this is entertaining stuff, even though your account of the BCC schism is a little light. It was about much more than egos: it was about honesty (or better yet, dishonesty), proper stewerdship, and behavior. The Elders did the hard but neccesary thing. For what it’s worth BCC is even better than you described it before the split.
>I haven’t been able to find a church yet that “fits.” Raised Catholic, but I’m not too comfortable there…….my main problem with any church is that is seems like high school all over again – cliques, cattiness, the whole deal. Kind of like the PTO I just joined. Sigh.
>Now now Lindsay, you do realize that posting schmoozy compliments about your pastor will NOT get you any brownie points when you are standing at the Pearly Gates….
>What is redshirting?
>I left the Episcopal church when I was told my well behaved children were not welcome inside the church. They could go to the day care or the park. In no uncertan terms. We went t Cracker Barrell. I left the baptist church when I was told I was a sinner for working outside the home and the reason myself and my children were going to hell. I was a single Mother at the time…not a word about the sins of the ******* that fathered her. Nope. He was scott free. Now I just pray in my own home and the occasional resturant but I avoid churches like the plague.
>I am a spiritual person but I hate organized religions! And I hate them for the reasons that you have illustrated here: Ego! Churches are man-made and humans have ego ergo…the church is not my cup of tea.
>Wow, thank you to everyone who assures me I won’t go to hell for this, particularly the unpreachy preacher and his wife. That makes me feel better. And to all of you ladies who think this pastor is good looking, I’d just say watch out, because his wife is good looking, too, and she knows some serious moves from American Gladiator. And I am not even kidding.Religion is such an interesting topic to discuss. I always want to write about it, but I hesitate because it’s so very personal… and so potentially inflammatory.
>oooooh…..And it was one of those short, to the point responses, the kind where you can’t tell the tone. I hate that, it’s like text messages. Text tone happy or text tone irritated, it’s tough to tell. But don’t you hate the feeling you get when your over thirty and you feel like you’re in 3rd grade and you’ve totally been busted??!! Just remember, he is a man of God…he doesn’t get to be all judgy judgy, unlike some of the members of my church. It is has some really wonderful people and then there are those sister Bertha-better-than-you’s who just drive me batty. I wish we could find a good church, but it’s so difficult.
>Surely the un-preachy preacher isn’t red-shirting his kid for sports, but for TOTALLY VALID reasons that you stated were a-okay with you…Surely?
>Inflammatory? Pish posh. Sometimes the moderately inflammatory topics make for the best discussions. The way I see it we are all, more or less, in one of three categories. 1) You don’t go to church, for whatever reason. 2) You are content, if not very happy, with your chosen church. 3) You are looking for that church where you feel like you’re home. I fall in number 3, as I’m sure many people do. I want a church where I feel comfortable and that has only the minimum requirement of sister Bertha-Better-Than-You’s. I want a pastor who educates me, instead of lecturing down to me. I don’t want to go to church and feel like I’m being lectured for being bad. However, I do want a sense of moral conviction. We wouldn’t want everyone just running willy nilly. I want to leave church knowing more about My God and my salvation than when I woke up that morning. I dare say that’s what most people want. Where is this church? Does a church like this even exist?
>I think you can approach religion from a basis of what churches can provide to get people to come! Seriously. Church membership in denominational churches is down. Nondenominational is up. And I think by approaching it that way it would apply to any church.
>Wow, faith vs. religion–you’re really going for it! This ought to spark some debate. And, double wow, your preacher blogs??!! And so does his wife?! Love it. And lucky for all of us, it doesn’t matter what everyone else things, or how they judge or perceive us. God, I’m fairly certain, appreciates any and all movements towards Him. Sorry about the redshirting thing, though. Bummer!
>ROFLMAO…my ticket to Heckydarnpoo is already punched (more on that another time, maybe), so I can afford to ROFLMAO at this one, Lindsay.But I’d like to help you out from the redshirt thang, so if your new preach reads this hyar, maybe this will help: what do you get when you cross an Atheist with a Jehovah Witness?Someone who knocks on your door for NO REASON!!!Well, it’s kinda funny…
>Our former pastor looked like him. I just found out that the entire church staff reads my site. Awesome.As for church – God wants us to be in community, whether it is in a small home church or a big one. Find one that works for you and you are good to go 😉
>1. I think you should do what God wants you to do. Search and Scriptures and see if He wants you worshiping Him with fellow believers every Sunday, or if He prefers you stay home. What is His will?2. I think you should consider the roughness of the NT church – Paul and Barnabus arguing to the point that they parted company, doctrinal divisions, believers dropping dead after lying to the Holy Spirit at the worship service, a man sleeping with his step mom – and consider whether most churches in the U.S. at this time are really that bad.3. I think you should be developing a desire to minister to others rather then just looking for ways for others to minister to you.
>we went to al kinds of different churches when i was a kid( yeah they were pretty new back then)anyway she stopped one easter when listening to the sermon i announced loud enough for the whole congregation “that’s not right is it,mom”? i never had to go again and she certainly never went back to that one.anyway your new guy and his wife sound pretty cool so don’t sweat the samll stuff.
>OH I’m laughing so hysterically. Especially that Pete RESPONDED.Hey Pete did you know your “yummy cute?”You know someone saw a pic of my pastor last week and said he was hot and it gave me the creepies. You just don’t think of your pastor like that. Well, at least I don’t. Nah, I love pastors that are REAL. I respect mine and honor him, and I’ve seen him be totally human… and that just makes me love him more. I hope you fall in love with Jesus at crosspoint. I hope you find home there. I pray you find family as well.
>I'm not knocking any of the other commentor's bad experiences with churches, in fact, I feel very badly for them. But I also feel like people, myself included, have ridiculously high expectations for churches to be 'perfect'. Everyone church is composed of sinners, imperfect people seeking a perfect God. So there will always be some disagreement, some conflict etc. It is hard to enter a new church, to make new friends, to find a place but mostly I've found that you get out of church what you put into it. If I hang around the fringes, attending sporatically, it's hard for church members to tell how interest I am in getting to know them. To me, each of our relationship & view of God is as unique as He created us. I don't think there will ever be a church or another person who shares my view point 100%, and that's ok.
>I love love love Pete’s blog. He’s great. I keep telling him to start a church in Birmingham! Your post about this made me laugh out loud.On the same note, we had a pastor we loved and thought was our friend. He’d been our pastor for nearly 8 years and like you said, the first church experience our children had. Things got real ugly this year and turns out he’s been doing a lot of borderline illegal things with the money, etc. Lovely! We feel betrayed. Hard to keep those feelings from spilling over into the church part. Several have left and we’re sticking it out. So far.
>I do church regularly, and I had to search and search for one that fit me too. My pastor has hit my site as well, and it’s all good. Why can’t you bring out the things in his life that need to be adjusted the same as he does for you? He’s not perfect.
>I always feels like the new Feel-Good churches attract frustrated Hollywood actor types as preachers – flinging their hair, stroking their beards, prancing around like strutting cocks across the stage while waving their arms – Nah – not for me.
>Preface: I live in Arkansas, which should explain some of thisI just wanted to chime in on the Ryan Secreast of Preachers.I went through a phase, out of immaturity that I was too good for my church and wanted to be like everyone else. So, I decided that I will hang out with them and be accepted. Pathetic, I know, my excuse is that I was 15-17 at that point. They had this hip, cool youth teacher to reach out to their youth or whatever, I always felt a sense of phony-ness. Throughout my stay, I kept noticing really weird things. For one, I wasn’t allowed to have communion because I wasn’t a member. So it seems visitors are unwelcome go God’s table. Also, they constantly preached about the fear of God and second coming. So over the past years I was so scared. I had the pleasant experience of being ‘saved; about 4 times. Then, I was like screw this. No offense to you Baptists out there. I felt unwanted and out of place. And since this, I figured I must be going to hell. I grew up Presbyterian, confirmation and all(now fully back). Our church was going through a horrible transfer between preachers and we lost a lot of members. After getting a new pastor, I feel so welcome and have started trusting in my religion.Now, we have had an influx of these Seacreasty guys. There are 3 colleges in my town. Someone, somewhere in my town, I don’t know who, decided they would build this mega hip cool church to attract college students. Well, they succeeded. They have freaking X-boxes in their narthex. Everyone wears jeans(no offense to those who do) and have no traditional service. I felt like I was watching a production of Jesus Christ Superstar. They have this crazy rock band. I don’t know, it just is weird, I worry for their souls haha, because it seems like they are so caught up in the, I dunno, and forget the real meaning and focus on and be memorized by the entertainment factor. It is hard to explain with out seeing its giant metal siding of a church. They have more parking than some of the major companies in town. :-/ They had this giant blog that had links to personal blogs of people, creeeppyy.Now, as I said, I have come back to my conservative Presbyterian church where I feel like I am not threatened. I feel like I love the church because it is the one thing I can count on that won’t change. -Of course no offense yo y’all, this is just how I feel about things like this. I understand it attracts younger couples and families.-Wow, this was long
>well, if he judged you then he loses in the great spiritual struggle ’08… as in DON’T JUDGE, remove the log from your own eye, cast the first stone, yaddayadda.let him read, he’ll learn something. plus your header photo is hawt and he’ll have to think of that every time he sees you at church.
>Lindsay,I’m Roman Catholic. The Catholic Church has the unique benefit of there being many parishes in any large community. If you don’t like St. Marisa of Abruzzi, you can go to St. Lawrence of the Holy Grill down the street without feeling like you are leaving “The Church”, just leaving a church. We were at St. Matthew when we lived in Bellevue, and switched to the Cathedral when we moved to West End/Richland.If you don’t like a priest or parish, you can go a few miles and be relatively happy. Then again some folks think we have too much paperwork and celestial bureaucracy. But we’re happy with it.
>P.S. – Most of our religious leaders don’t have Faux Hawks, but the Bishop has a mean hat and some serious bling!
>I thought if you were Catholic, you were obligated to go to the parish closest to your home, period…
>Lindsay,You are under no obligation to be at the closest parish. Your pastor may wish you to think that, but the pastor at the church you attend is more than happy to welcome you and your contribution to the collection plate.A parish was opened in my town, growing up, we were among the many who flocked to it. I still miss it to this very day. It is run by sweet, holy, Cistercian Monks. Neighbors who sent their kids to catholic school, were members at that parish, and indeed, their pastor was a bit snarky if the parents weren’t members of that parish. Largely, since our collection plate contributions to Catholic Education went to a school in an socioeconomically challenged area, rather than his upper middle class populated school. Indeed, when my parents were children, growing up in Philadelphia, the Catholic parishes were ethnically segregated. An Italian might walk past an “Irish” and a “Polish” Catholic parish to go to the Italian one. The different ethnic groups were sometimes like oil and water (though I am the product of a mixed marrage (irish/italian)), but the church had the same mass with the same biblical readings as every other Catholic church. Essentially, music the sermon and music vary between Catholic churches on Sunday.
>Good luck on the new church…(Hi, Unpreachy Preacher)You probably have already done this, but a post on all your “surprise”(ie…friends,family,neighbors,etc..)that read your blog would be very interesting and probably hilarious. I bet you’ve got some stories…