>The Final Word. For Now.
>Just as I was getting totally fed up with this circumcision debate-turned-trainwreck (which I’m still undecided about, by the way- I really need to talk to my OB next, whom I trust and adore), Annie went and cracked me up. No matter what side of the debate you’re on, I hope you have enough of a sense of humor to laugh at her “Daily Prayer”:
>Life’s tough enough without looking for more pain; I’d give the circumcision a pass.
>hahaha, that is pretty funny. I’ve very much anti-circ, but only really came to that definite stance the moment my son’s circ began. It. was. awful. My husband and I were both in the room with our son when it happened and – without going into detail – we both left that room with a ton of regret and feeling horrible for the choice we made, plus our son passed out into an exhausted-from-screaming sleep almost immediately afterwards and scared the heck out of us. BUT, I later compared what happened with a friend who also has a son and found out that during her son’s circ, he was so numbed up that he barely noticed anything going on down there. She’s still big time against it though (don’t remember the exact reasons). My husband has said if we ever have another son, no circ. (for the record, hubby is circ’d and was raised very strictly baptist, so when we found out we were going to have a son, there no was question of if he would be circ’d or not.)For what it’s worth – I had a long relationship with a non-circ’d guy (it didn’t make any difference in intimate moments and he didn’t have any problems with being “intact”, socially or otherwise.) and, ‘m friends with two brothers – one who is circ’d and the other is not. When I finally got the nerve to ask them questions about if the “intact” brother felt odd, had problems during locker room moments, etc. I found out it never was an issue for him and growing up he thought it was just another difference in people – like how his hair is blond, but his brother has brown hair. Either way you choose though – remember it is your’s and your husband’s choice and just be sure that you feel educated on both sides of it.
>Jesus was also a Jew, hence his circumcision at 8 days. Are you Jewish?Does your OB make money from circumcisions? If so, she/he is hardly an unbiased source of information.He can always choose to get cut when he is older. You don’t have to decide for him and risk deciding wrong.
>5000 years of Jewish Civilization can’t be wrong.Regarding conflict of interest, OB’s make less money doing a circ than they can make doing other things during the same time period. Our OB didn’t mind doing it, but it really didn’t affect his bottom line.Pediatricians, on the other hand, who make less than OBs, do profit from the proceedure in that they get paid $150 to see your well kiddo in the hospital and $250 for a circ. Our pediatrician, who feels it’s a coin toss whether to do it or not, doesn’t do them. Our pediatrician’s partner who rounded on our son the first day after his birth (our Ped was out of town) was angry we didn’t want him doing it. But then again he also felt my wife was commiting a war crime for not breastfeeding. (She went crazy trying to do it for our first kidlet and chose not to do it for the second).That being said, I think its the right thing to do (outlined in other post), but it is yours and Hubs’s choice and no one elses (including mine :p ).
>Annie’s a bum kissing idiot. Would think you’d know that by now.
>Ok, people….if you are going to make inflammatory comments, or slam someone, have the courage to not be anonymous!I was circ’ed. It was botched. I’m not disfigured, but there are differences between what I’ve got and “normal”, which I won’t get into. My father wasn’t. If I had had a son, he would have been. In the northeast, it is a cultural norm. It’s easier to keep clean and hygienic(sp), and speaking from experience, I know how good boys, young and older, are at keeping themselves clean.Little boy will have no memory, and you don’t have to be there for the procedure if you are squeamish.Good luck!
>Ok- No matter WHAT you chose to do- people are going to get their panties in a wad- Just do what you and your hubby feel is the right thing for your baby boy, tell everyone else that it is none of their business- I know you opened up a “Pandora’s Box” on this issue, but you CAN close it! Good Luck, just remember, there is not a right or wrong decision- it’s a very grey area!
>My husband is not (he’s British and it’s no longer the done thing). We don’t know the gender yet of our kid, but I can pretty much guess if it’s a boy we won’t be getting the snip. I don’t even know if circumcision is covered by the NHS.From the comments on the previous post and those who thought uncircumcised penises were “icky” – I have to say – they aren’t. They all pretty much do what they’re supposed to.On the other hand, the only Nashville boy I know who wasn’t (and granted I don’t talk to everyone about this) was my college roommate’s 8 year old brother. And he had just had the procedure done so he could look like everyone else. He offered to show me his newly post-op penis (he was so proud), but I declined.
>Ha-ha! Glad I could crack you up Lindsay.Please pull down your pants so I can kiss your bum!Like I said, I had my kids very young. If I had a child now, I really don’t know if I would have him circumcised; I’m open-minded and I’d probably look at the whole thing more carefully.I really just tried to relate my experience and the thought process that went into it at the time, not be “for” or “against” it.
>Jews don’t circumcise because its the “right” thing to do, they do it because it is a covenant with their god. Its a blood sacrifice. A sacrifice! They know they’re giving something up. Why can’t blind Americans see that?In the case of a Christian, Jesus was the final sacrifice. No more blood sacrifices are needed.And all of you posting about cleanliness must have a really high opinion of your little boys. My boy can clean himself. Perhaps the problems isn’t with the foreskin, but your parenting methods? Or maybe its just another dumb excuse to perpetuate the cultural norms?
>Dear Anonymous -“A sacrifice! They know they’re giving something up. Why can’t blind Americans see that?”I don’t think anyone anywhere should question whether or not Americans know about sacrifice. I think we’ve sacrificed quite enough – and get no respect for it. Why can’t the blind Europeans see that? What would you all be without us? Blonde, blue-eyed, speaking German, that’s what.- Elizabeth
>I love it. If my newly adopted child comes with ‘equipment’ and we have to make this decision, I’m going to keep this in mind.LOL.As for all the Anonymous comments, if you feel so strongly, why the anonymity? When I feel strongly and passionately about a subject, I have the nuts (sorry) to own up to my opinions….
>Okay, okay, I knew that some people would still manage to get upset about this. Some of you seriously need to lighten up.
>Jesus was raised Jewish so that’s why he was circ’d 😉
>Geez Linds, your posts are bringing out the crazies. My son is circumsized. It was not thought out and researched, it was a case of the doc asking me right after having him and me looking at him blankly. (drugs, maybe?) Later dh and I shrugged and said, “Ok.” It was quick, he was fine, and it was seriously no big deal.It’s your family’s decision and nobody else’s business, really.
>Alls I know is, if it was good enough for Our Lord and Savior, it’s good enough FOR MY SON!
>Hmmm, my point flew completely over the head of the another anonymous commenter.I said that Americans don’t see circumcision as a sacrifice, not that they don’t understand sacrifice in general.
>Jesus was also persecuted, tortured, and crucified. Is that good enough for your son, too? If I were Christian, I would want my son to emulate Jesus’s kindness, not his penis or his gruesome death.
>Circumcision DOES matter.You see, this is what is going to start the Apocylypse. In the final days, there’s going to be a war one day between all the circumcised and non-circumcised penises in the world. In the end, though women had nothing to do with the original decision, it will be decided that women started the whole thing, and a new religion will sprout, and in the new bible, it will say: And the wives of men said, the appearance of your penis matters, cut thy foreskin off. The man said, but ouch, and refused. The woman said, fine, what about Jr? And the man said, fine, cut thy Jr’s foreskin off, just leave mine alone, and lo the woman circumcised her son, and lo he looked different than his daddy, and lo, when he grew up, he started a war with his father, and lo, so didn’t his friends. And finally, God said enough, and kicked the wives of men and men out of the second Garden of Eden, and lo, this is why we now all live on Asteroid 7,3457, and why all penises have half the foreskin cut off…
>Now that was funny!Is there a way of fining mothering.com for sending me all the crazies? I’m going to have to turn off anonymous comments again for a while.
>Jesus was also a Jew, to whom other horrible things happened as well as circumcision.I do hope you’re not going to crucify him too…..By the way, the Battle of Britain was already won by the time the US joined in TWO YEARS LATE. You only joined in because your forces got attacked at Pearl Harbour and US interests were under threat, not because of any feeling towards Europe. If it hadn’t been in your own interests, your country would have stayed out of it, unlike more recent wars. Quite apart from that, there are worse things than being blond, blue eyed and speaking German…why do you see that as a threat? Have you got something against Germans?
>ok thats funny shit. but was he circ’d? Im not big on the bible and god so I have no idea!
>My wife’s ob had to do the circumcision because the pediatritian (that can’t be spelled right) wouldn’t. They don’t believe in it.
>…and on the eighth day God looked down and saw His children fighting over the penises of children who were not their own. And it was bad. And the Lord spread His arms wide, His visage angry and sayeth,”Oy! All of you! For My sake knock it off! Don’t make me come down there!”And the children, while sullen, were silent, stopped being nasty and rude, and let Lindsay make up her own mind for her son.Amen
>In my mother/baby rotation in nursing school, I saw many baby boys get circumcised. In my opinion, it wasn’t that bad for the benefits I see for later in life. In fact, a pacifier dipped in some sugar water goes a long way toward comforting the baby when he is being circumcised. I would not, however, want to watch my own child be circumcised, as I am sure it would seem much more traumatic to me then.That said, it’s up to y’all. But don’t let the militant anti-circumcision Anonymous people go all crazy on you…that means that they win!
>We have a boy who is not (16 months old now) and with all the information about HIV & STD prevention by getting snipped — we’ve begun to wonder if we made the right choice. My DH is from Russia, where unless you’re Jewish, it’s not done, so I figured we’d have one peni-type in this house — but we still wonder if we made the right choice. Don’t know if that helps or not but it’s where we’re at.
>Way to start up the debate again! 🙂 DO IT! DO IT! DO IT!
>Annie, ladeedah and mooselet, Thanks for the laughs!!!
>I initially was going to keep my thoughts to myself…but I can’t any longer.My 9 month old son is circumcised and I don’t regret it for one second. It was the only time while in the hospital that he left our room with the doctor and had it done. Really he was not overly sleepy, seemingly in pain or had any issues around it. Truth be told I would rather him have it done at birth than wait until he is older and it could be more painful and humiliating for him.My almost 8 year old stepson is also circumcised and I can NOT even begin to imagine what life would be like it he wasn’t. I mean who is going to go in the bathroom while he showers/bathes and help him clean himself properly? I’ve only heard about how unclean this can be and how hard to keep clean and free from infection.So there’s my unsolicited 2 cents.
>I’ve been following this passionate debate without commenting until now. I let my husband (cir’d) decide, and he decided not to have our two sons done. He has a cousin whose circ was botched (too much skin removed/excess scar tissue), and had to have corrective surgery both as a toddler and as a teen. (Puberty–the time of life when the male brain gets smaller, and the male genitalia get larger!) We also discussed it with our (Jewish) pediatricians, and they gave us a well-balanced list of pros and cons. There wasn’t anything strong enough (in our opinion) for or against that made the decision easy. The hilarious thing is that the pediatrician always comments on the amount of foreskin on my younger son. “I’ve never seen so much foreskin on a kid!”, he said. I, staring straight at the yarmulke that he wears on his head, said “I guess you don’t see a lot of foreskin!”On the pro-circ side, my father was not circumsized until he was a young man, and he had it done after several bladder infections. The circ took care of his problem. Of course, my dad’s nearly 80, and grew up without indoor plumbing, so good hygiene was a little harder to maintain.Whatever you decide, there will be people that think you did the wrong thing. We even got feedback from the nursery workers at our church who changed our boys’ diapers. We had to convince them (using the Bible) that circumcision is not required for Christians. Of course, it’s okay for Christians to be circumcised. God leaves it up to the parents.
>My son was circ’ed and he didn’t cry a bit. Just make sure you get something to numb the pain. You crazies need to go back to your hippy hole.
>I can’t bear to wade through mdc’s trainwreck of comments, so forgive me if anyone has already posted a link to Dan Savage’s column on this:http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=19705It is definitely very regional – in Ann Arbor, I’d say it about 80% uncirc. (based on a very unscientific survey of my pretty liberal playgroup). Whatever you decide, have your comeback comments ready. I was stumped when both my parents asked (in their roundabout way) “Won’t that cause problems later in life?” (when we didn’t). Of course, now we have something easy to blame for all and any issues my son encounters.
>OK, here’s the Savage article, since I think I screwed up the link. Always educational, Dan:Cut and Uncut for Kerry
>Lucinda I did NOT need to read 215 opinions on circumcision, but WHY can’t I look away???Anyway, I wanted to give you my experience/opinion (or lack thereof, as the case may be).I have two boys and left them both intact. My husband is cut. With the first one, I only read bad things about it, am very over-protective and just really couldn’t stand the thought of letting someone do it to my baby. I told my husband to look at some gruesome pictures of the procedures if he wanted to cut our boy and he couldn’t… he said we’d just leave him intact.Two years later, when we were ready to have a second boy, I had read a lot more balanced literature (I went through the same process with vaccines, but that’s another train wreck) and was starting to question our judgment the first time around. In the end we decided to leave number 2 intact too.If my boys at any time decide they need to be circumcised, I’ll be understanding and help them accomplish that. I would think it would be less painful down the road as, as some have pointed out, it’s not just a cut on an infant, it’s also a ripping of the skin apart like ripping off a fingernail, in order to get to the part that needs to be cut (which isn’t an issue anymore once it retracts).All that said, let me add that any grown man who needs a support group for mourning the loss of his foreskin is likely missing a lot more than just some foreskin! While my husband doesn’t think circumcision is necessary, he is not devestated to have been circumcised either.As I said, sometimes I question my decision, but I think I would feel similarly conflicted if we’d done it.I’m sure this is wholely unhelpful, but just know that I sympathize!
>And hello??? How stupid am I… I know you are Lindsey and not “Lucinda” (no excuse either because I only discovered you AFTER you outed yourself!)
>I chose not to circ my now 20 yr old ds. His father is Belgian and of course they don’t circ routinely there, it’s not even thought of. Canada, Australia and most of the European countries have very low rates of circumcision (under 5% or so) and they don’t seem to have this massive number of men experiencing problems requiring circumcision. Are boys in other countries somehow more clean than American boys?? Keeping my daughter clean when she was a baby was much more difficult than my son. And of course girls are much more prone to UTI’s than boys. Yet we never consider removing any parts of a girl’s genitalia despite those complications. And many studies have called into question the conventional wisdom that circumcision prevents or lowers the risk of penile cancer.
>My husband and my three sons are NOT circumsized. My husband was never made fun of (and he played every sport he could in high school – so between that and the military he has been ‘seen’ by plenty of other guys who could have made fun of him)… of course, he’s um… fairly well endowed, so maybe that overshadowed the not being circumsized. Anyway, I see it as cruel and unnecessary, but I know a lot of people that do it. I’d say that of the people I know who have sons – 50% seems about accurate. I think men that are not circumsized enjoy sex more (no scar tissue and more uh… friction). As for hygiene, I think that 150 years ago, when people only took baths once a week, if that, that having the foreskin there may have caused infections. But people shower every day now. I taught my sons (the two that are old enough) how to pull it back and wash while they were bathing. My husband and three sons have never had any kind of issue with hygiene/infection.I didn’t have time to read the 110 comments (before the psychos took over) on the other thread, so thought I’d add the experiences of the males in my life to this thread. My husband was against it for our sons, as was I. p.s. both my sisters had their sons circumsized, except one who was in ICU and wasn’t able to be and my sister freaked out until she talked to me and found out that her son would not be considered a mutant if his foreskin was attached. LOL
>Well, I for one enjoyed the joke. :)My son was circ’ed because 1) we live in a part of the country (he was born near Nashville) where circ’ing is VERY common (none of my friends left their boys intact and I’ve never even seen an intact man IRL) and there is enough angst during the adolescent years that I didn’t want to add to it by having my son’s penis look different from everyone else’s. And 2) Since my husband has a penis and I don’t and he is circ’ed and says he is glad he is and does not regret it in the least, I pretty much left the decision up to him and he was in favor of having our son circ’d.