>The Return of Gym Mom
>As I walked into the YMCA nursery a few days ago, they were impossible to ignore.
“AYYYAAAAAAHHHH!” a five-year-old boy screamed, flinging himself at his two-year-old brother.
“AIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!” his brother responded in a key that could shatter glass, flapping ineffectually back at the older boy before falling to the floor in a kicking, screaming fury. On the screeching and squawking and screaming and punching and tantrumming went. My eyes traveled slowly from the boys up to their mother, a perfectly toned, dyed blonde who was pointedly ignoring them and everyone else. Have you guessed who I’m talking about yet? It was her, the gym mom who inspired a heated argument in the comments of this blog back in January. And surprise, surprise. Nothing had changed.
She paused for a moment, then gently shoved her older son into the big kids’ room and shut the door. Next, she turned to her sobbing younger son. Picking up the boy gingerly under his armpits, she walked across the nursery lobby, stepped over the dividing gate into the toddler room, and dropped him on his butt on a stack of play mats. The kid promptly fell backward and flipped heels over head onto his stomach. He began screaming at the top of his lungs. The nursery workers stared, aghast. On the other side of the dividing wall in the baby room, Bruiser’s eyes widened and he began crying, too. Shit. I tried to comfort him and watched to see what the gym mom would do next. She smiled blandly at the nursery worker.
“He’ll be fine,” she said over her son’s plaintive screams. And… she left. Her son ran to the dividing wall and watched her go, tears streaming down his face.
“Well, they say the best thing to do is leave them alone, I guess…” the nursery worker said dubiously, looking at the boy. Two other moms came over and tried to talk to him. He cried louder. I calmed Bruiser down and gave him to a nursery worker before heading out into the gym. As fate would have it, the only open elliptical was next to Gym Mom. I got on it. We didn’t speak.
As we, erm, ellipticized side by side, I thought about all the things that had been written about her on this blog. I thought about the moms who said I should have more empathy for women with difficult kids, even if those kids hit or push my own children. I tried to put myself in her shoes. I tried to tell myself that she needed a break, and that an hour at the Y might be the only break she could get from her hellions all day long. I tried to be understanding. I tried to feel sympathy. I tried to feel pity. I tried y’all, I swear I did.
But I couldn’t.
Maybe it was that bland smile she wears throughout the chaos. Maybe it’s the fact that I’m just well enough acquainted with her to know that she could easily afford to hire a private sitter to watch her children rather than foisting them off onto overworked nursery employees and putting other kids at risk. The thing is, if she had seemed frazzled, apologetic, or in desperate need of an hour to herself, I think I would have felt at least a pang of pity for her. But the ‘eat shit’ grin she always wore got to me, particularly when I saw it after learning that her son had pushed my daughter. It pissed me off.
“I have a right, too, you know” I wanted to tell her. “I have a right to bring my kid to the nursery and not worry that your kid is going to hurt her. And what about the nursery workers? They have 15 other kids to watch, including mine! It’s not fair to make them spend the entire time refereeing your older son and talking your younger one down from a tantrum!”
I tell you this not to send you into a cold, finger-pointing fury, but because this is a dilemma that I’m sure lots of you have dealt with on one end of things or another. I think of my friend who teaches Sunday School. For a while, a boy was put in her class who was so out-of-control that she literally couldn’t teach the lesson if he showed up. Instead, she spent the entire time trying to placate him and keep him from hurting himself or someone else. His parents acted completely oblivious and since she was simply volunteering her time, she didn’t feel comfortable confronting them. Most of us wouldn’t. I’d never in a million years say something directly to Gym Mom, unless I were to catch her son in the act doing something to my daughter, and even then, I’d have a hard time with it. After all, it’s un-P.C. to confront another parent. It’s sort of trashy.
But where do we draw the line? What is our responsibility to our children? What’s our responsibility to the children of others? Most of us have a hands-off philosophy when it comes to other kids, right? Walk a mile in their parents’ shoes first, we say with a deeply tolerant air. But we also like to say that it takes a village to raise a child. So shouldn’t we be stepping in more? After my first encounter with Gym Mom, some of you got so angry that I said loudly in front of her older son that we should never hit or push anyone. I may have embarrassed him! a few of you chided me. But aren’t we doing society a disservice if we stand around acting like bad behavior is normal, for fear that we might offend someone? To me, the smile on Gym Mom’s face was the smile of a woman who knows her kids can damn well do what they please and no one will stop them.
Most of the time.
Ten minutes into my deep thoughts, one of the nursery workers walked up to our machines. She looked up at Gym Mom and waited for her to take out her earbuds.
“Is it that bad?” Gym Mom asked witheringly. The worker nodded. Gym Mom left and didn’t come back.
I don’t see this situation resolving itself any time soon. I’m sure I’ll deal with Gym Mom again at the Y, either directly or indirectly, and I’m equally sure that she’s only the first in a long line of parents I encounter who give their kids free rein to do whatever the hell they want- even if it negatively affects other kids or takes undue amounts of time from teachers and caregivers. How do you respond to parents like this? How should I? I want to be sympathetic. I don’t want to be a pushover who’s afraid to “make a fuss” by standing up for my children.
>There is more going on here than bad or lazy parenting. Even if she can afford a sitter maybe she CAN’T get one to watch those kids! It sounds to me like these kids need more individual attention ie: therapy. I doubt this woman pays more attention to these kids at home and it shows. Clearly this woman is in denial and I agree she is not doing ANYBODY any favors by letting her kid tough it out. She does need to be told what is up. It may take being banned from the Y child care. A better form of exercise would be playing with these kids outside! Or getting a sitter for one while she is with the other.
>I’m more frustrated that she basically threw her son down and walked away. I think most of us have left our children crying somewhere (daycare, sitter, grandma’s, etc), but we know it’s just because they are upset we left, not because we tossed them over a wall! Sounds like her kids are just crying for attention from their mother. I feel bad for them.But, I have no idea that I would say anything to her, or what I would say. Maybe she’ll get a different schedule and you won’t have to worry about it?!?!
>Thank you for posting that. When I was little I had a cousin who DID NOT behave and my aunt and uncle looked the other way. So did my grandparents. What did it mean to me? I had to be on my best behaviour at all times and was not left alone for any long periods of time with my grandparents since my cousin took up all of their time and attention.Today, he is struggling, trying to raise a family after having no structure or consequences dealt to him while growing up. My aunt and uncle seemed to think that it was an inconvienice to raise him and thought that everyone should just deal with it.
>I agree with Cathy. She needs to burn some calories taking her kids on walks or playing with them in the park. I only have one baby, and am fortunate to have my parents available to watch her while I work part-time. I can’t even imagine having time to get a manicure and go to the gym! Maybe these kids are just clamoring for mommy’s attention.
>That is tough. Those poor boys are literally crying out for their mom to show them some boundaries. And I do think she is being irresponsible/ selfish in leaving her children in that kind of situation, to impose on the caregivers and endanger other kids. I’m not saying I’ve never left my kids crying in the arms of a child care worker, but that was more separation anxiety rather than a full-on tantrum. And I always hover anxiously, out of sight until my child calms down. I think you responded approriately in BOTH situations. I am sure it was disturbing to see a mother ignore her kids like that.
>I dealt with a similar situation several years ago when my daughter was a toddler. It was actually at a YMCA as well. There was a little boy who was a biter and my child always seemed to be his main target. The nursery workers were always very apologetic but the boy’s mother never once apologized or acknowledged the situation. The last straw was when he bit her on the back so hard it tore her shirt and broke the skin. To say I was angry was an understatement. I approached the nursery director and she in turn with the Y director had a conversation with the mother and explained to her the the child would no longer be welcome in the nursery. Afterwards, so many parents were thankful that the kid wouldn’t be allowed back.
>Poor babies. 🙁 This story made me sad.
>I’m all for finding solutions, too.At my parents’ church, so many children with behavioral problems were being brought to Sunday School that they started a separate group of volunteers who are assigned to one child only each week. I think that’s a great solution that makes everyone happy.I realize that it’s difficult to find childcare for wilder children. But I feel like we all signed on to be parents knowing that some of our jobs might end up being vastly more difficult than others. If it really takes a village, then I think we need to consider other children’s welfare in addition to our own. I’m all for helping the mom who says she needs help, but it’s hard to help the defensive mom who refuses to acknowledge that there’s a problem. FRUSTRATING!
>The Y Director there is a friend of mine. I know people, if you know what I mean. It could look like an accident.You know, suddenly and mysteriously any record of her having a membership there could vanish.She’d arrive, and her pass wouldn’t work, and, they’d say they never heard of her.
>I feel sorry for the boys – but feeling sorry for them doesn’t change the fact that there are certain ways that ALL children should be expected to act – no hurting others, etc. I think it would be a lot easier to acknowledge this mom without wanting to flick her in the head for her choices if she weren’t so…aloof about it. If she even appeared the least bit exasperated or apologetic, I think that it would be easier to befriend (or at least tolerate) her.
>I am so sad for these boys. Obviously, they are screaming….literally…for a little attention from Mom. I would be extremely uncomfortable with leaving my 4 year old in a situation with these kids. And I dont blame the kids for acting this way. It seems this is how they have been taught (directly or indirectly) to behave for attention. I am one of those who never give parenting advice to other parents, even my best friends, except when directly asked for it. But I struggle with this one. I am just sad for those boys.
>But aren’t we doing society a disservice if we stand around acting like bad behavior is normal, for fear that we might offend someone? Yes, we are. Which is why the behavior seems to get worse. Those people count on us being too polite to embarrass them by speaking up. Personally, I am not. I will ask people to take their crying kids out of restaraunts and movies, say “Excuse me, the line starts back there,” and many other things others are unable to say.In your case, I think I’d talk to the gym manager. You do have a right to know that the caregivers will be able to give attention to all the kids, including your daughter, not just the poor kids of this woman.The saddest thing is that these kids have to grow up with a self-indulgent be-atch of a mother!
>I am a little pushy when it comes to my children and their safety. I personally would talk to the director of the Y and find out what (if anything) has been done regarding the children’s behavior. I worked at a Y child care and would bet your patootie that those workers DREAD those children too. Are they documenting the behavior?- if not, they should be. Hopefully they are keeping track of the number of times mom has to be forced to pick up early as well as records of bites, etc. Ask to see the accident reports- they are mandated by the state to submit them and you have every right to look at them too.I had to have conversations like those with parents at the Y and sometimes gently told them that it would be better if they came sans children. If you really want you (and your children) to feel safe, you could certainly threaten quitting the club. It’s her or you. I think they just might pick you:)I feel most sorry for her children, but you can only advocate for your own!
>Hahaha Busy Mom’s comment was the best. Don’t get mad. Get even!You can complain all you want but until you discuss it with the woman, or the people at the Y do, there is nothing constructive about the way the situation is being handled.
>I feel so sad for those boys. Obviously she thinks her kids don’t fit in with her day. You have to wonder what walls she puts them behind at home 🙁
>Sounds like my neighbor. Who’s son hits, and pushes and has even punched my daughter. When I told his mom that my oldest doesn’t want to play with him, because he scares her. She just chuckled. Now our younger daughters don’t play together because her older can’t behave. Such a shame.
>My big son is in the throes of bullydom (he’s being bullied, not the other way around), and I have to resist the urge to either kick the parents OR the kid whenever I see them.This post resonates with me because of that. Shame on her for treating her kids like that.
>wow. lazy parenting. definitely.
>Oh wow. I would have said something to her!
>”I realize that it’s difficult to find childcare for wilder children. But I feel like we all signed on to be parents knowing that some of our jobs might end up being vastly more difficult than others.”Actually, I think part of the problem is that very few people really — *really* — think about having children and then think, “You know, I’d better get ready, because my future kids could be brats! Or have behavioral/emotional problems! Or major medical problems!” Maybe step-parents do, because they are already parenting. But most of us just think “Oh, a baby, how delightful! I’m sure there will be some tough times, but it will be great!” And then, of course, some kids *are* difficult, or have developmental issues. And just like any other job in the world, some people are better at parenting than others. I’m great at working with computer software — not so good with accounting. But it doesn’t have the same repercussions to the public at large as if I were good at the office, not so great with the kids. And then sometimes you just see parents and kids who are mismatched — the sensitive loner whose parent forces them into unwanted social situations, the non-athletic kid whose parent makes them play lots of sports (badly). Or some parents would be great with an average kid, but just can’t *deal* with their tantrum-throwing wild child. Anyway, I’m not sure where that leaves us, because I don’t really see these issues going away. I feel bad for those boys at the Y. Their mom obviously didn’t get what she thought she was getting (or doesn’t have what she wants, it doesn’t really matter how you phrase it). I think politley but firmly standing up for your own kid is all you can do in this particular situation. Which is too bad.
>It’s me again – the judgey Amy from before. Here are my thoughts on the matter, for what they’re worth.If you were to confront this woman, odds are that she would blow you off or deny it. It’s not as though a heartfelt conversation with you is going to turn her into Mother of the Year, no matter how perfectly you approach it. There are no magic words to make her a better mother, unfortunately. If the anguished cries of her own offspring don’t change her, a conversation with you won’t, either. It’ll just piss her off. It could even make the situation worse for her kids.In my opinion, if you think the kids are truly being neglected, you have a responsibility to call the authorities and let them intervene. From what you’ve described, I think this would be an extreme reaction, but obviously this woman and her children are causing you no small degree of concern, so there it is. If what’s happening behind closed doors is worse, and it could well be… Well, either way, it’s not for you to decide. All you can do is report what you’ve seen and let the authorities handle it. Bad parenting, though, isn’t against the law.If you feel that her kids are a threat to your kids, I agree that you need to address it with the Y director. Even if that threat isn’t overt (they’re hitting, biting, etc.), but is more subtle (they take the caregivers’ attention away from the other kids). There must be some policy or procedure in place for dealing with such situations, and they can follow it.If we’re going to talk “it takes a village” then your obligation to the kids may be filled by befriending the mother. Maybe you can provide a better example of mothering. Maybe she had a crap mom, and doesn’t know any other way. You can also provide some loving attention to those kids, who so desperately need it. Maybe have them over for a play date without their mom once in a while. This obviously requires the most discomfort and work on your part, but I think it’s truly what is meant when people say “it takes a village” – I don’t think that they mean the village should show up at the front gate of the Bad Mommy’s house with blazing torches and pitchforks. I don’t think that they mean that the village should have angry confrontations with Bad Mommy.It is a frustrating situation. We’ve all seen a parent doing something that made us cringe, and wondered what we could or should do. I find that the only thing that helps, especially with strangers, is to say, “Wow, rough day, huh? Some days I swear my kids should be in a zoo. Do you have any relatives around here to help you?” If you get them involved in a conversation, where you’re sympathetic, maybe you can be a more appropriate vent for that parent than smacking the kids around, you know?I never meant to offend before. I hope that my intentions are more clear in this comment (God knows it’s long enough…)Amy @ http://prettybabies.blogspot.com
>Thanks, Amy, that was very thoughtful and well-put. I guess with the village analogy, I’m thinking back to a time when it was more acceptable for mothers and teachers to tell the children of other parents that their behavior was unacceptable if that child was causing problems. Now, no one would dare- It is SO un-P.C. It is SO inappropriate. So kids like these boys could very likely grow up thinking their behavior is okay. And if that happens, there is a good chance they will end up being socially unproductive, jerk adults who no one feels sorry for anymore.I’m sure the eat shit smile is this mom’s coping mechanism and her defense, and it’s working! It is so off putting that I wouldn’t dare trying to say something friendly to her. I might get turned to stone…
>I feel sorry for those boys. With that said I would not stand for them hurting my child. I would speak with the director and let him/her know you feel something needs to be done about the behavior that is going on. The mother is not willing to do anything or even show the slightest bit of remorse for what her children are doing. Maybe a dose of reality for her, in the form of her children no longer being welcome at the nursey, might be what she needs to wake up and smell the coffee.
>I am one of those parents from before who said to cut her some slack because you don’t know what she really has to deal with. (Since I have a child with SPD and CP)I’ve changed my mind. Even though you still really don’t know what she deals with, even though you’ve said you know her. This woman is emotionally absent from her children and one can only hope that their father is a doting, involved, loving one to make up for the Mother they got dealt. Or, at least there is a loving caregiver in their lives. No matter what your children put you through, you should not be able to be indifferent to them. I AM that Mom with special needs/high-needs kids who is constantly doing for others with no help. My 3yr old will throw a tantrum in public, and sometimes, it may seem I am ignoring it, but in reality, there is not much I can do to calm or divert him and he is on his 3 millionth one of the day and nothing I have tried has worked and we are at daughter’s ballet class, so I can’t just leave. But, if you look at my face, I haven’t just checked out, I look harried, exhausted, embarrased, mortified, worn-down and probably am in tears. How any parent can fail to show ANY emotion when it comes to their kids escapes me. Hell, I can barely keep it together when they say something funny and I’m supposed to be punishing them. But, maybe I just wear my emotions on my sleeve, she may be more of a hard-ass than the rest of us!I don’t know what you should do, since I am normally a pansy when it comes to confrontation. To protect my children, I would probably find a new place to work out, unless I actually saw something, then I would call the kids, the mom, the workers and everyone else on it. You know, or I would figure out when she goes and work my schedule around it. Yeah, I’m passive-aggressive like that!Michelle
>I do say something to other kids if their parents/guardians are not around or are not. I almost got into a physical altercation with a woman at that rat pizza place because of it. THe child was being extremeley rude to the people working the ticket redemption counter, and was cutting and pushing to boot. I pointed out ratherly nicely that she needed to wait her turn. She went to the women she was with, who confront me, yelling and screaming. I should have found her and had her talk to the child, which she made a point of telling me wasn’t hers. The manager had her removed and she was banned from that establishment. Apparently I wasn’t the first person to have a problem. Unfortunately, that little girl was empowered that day, and knows that she can do no wrong in that adults eyes. Unfortunately, we do not live in the world of yesteryear, when parents were permitted to scold someone elses child if they misbehaved. What a bad situation for you.
>I expect other parents that I know to step in if they see my kids doing something they shouldn’t be doing. However, I think some people will be on the defensive NO MATTER WHAT. With those folks, I don’t think there is a solution except to remove your kids from the situation even it it inconveniences you.
>This is murky water here. I say if her children are causing such a disruption that the employees of the nursery can not do their job, then the Y has the right to tell her she can’t bring them, right? I know daycares kick kids out??Beyond that, I don’t think it is your business unless it harms your children in some way. I think the question to be asked when considering if you do anything is to be completely honest in asking yourself if this is more about your right to exercise or your convenience. Yes, your children have a right to be safe, but it isn’t like going to the gym is something you MUST do, unlike daycare/school for your job. If I were sincerely worried about my child’s safety in this situation, I would find another gym or time to go when she wasn’t there.
>I’m not reading any comments till I say what I have to…I don’t want to be influenced.Lindsey, you have shown far more restraint than I ever would have. With the first incident, since the mom obviously wasn’t going to address her child, I would have stopped him as he ran by and told him he needed to apologize to Punky. If the mom wasn’t going to address it, damn sure I would.On this…wow. There is SO much to say..yet not say.My son has been a childcare nightmare…not so much because he hits and fights…but he genuinely HATED being apart from me. And I NEEDED, more than anything, a little time for ME…to be with God, or friends…whatEVER the time was…I NEEDED it. And I tried…but I honestly couldn’t leave my son when he was screeching as though his heart was broken. And if I had dumped, so unceremoniously as Gym mom, my son to the point where he’d been HURT (or at the very least, stunned), I would have turned around and pulled that boy into my arms and loved on him a bit. Gym mom didn’t do anything. And in the end, her boys will pay her back the same way. They will not love her the way they should, or could. Your teens, Punky, Bruiser…they may “hate” you when you do something that they feel is against them, but in the end, they’ll love you so much more because you took the time to care. I don’t know how you have been able to hold your tongue. I have a sharp, barbed tongue and this Gym mom…she’d have felt the full force of it, easily.
>I do think it’s important to emphasize that your problem isn’t so much with the woman’s relationship with her kids as it is in how she allows her kids to behave. Perhaps the mother’s indifference results from not knowing what to do with her little screamers/fighters. As a result of her not knowing, she’s frustrated, and then, she gets emotionally detached. It’s not right. And like lots of people have mentioned, it makes me feel REALLY sorry for the kids. They seem to really be crying out for structure and guidance. But that’s not the main problem. It’s that their behavior as a result of her indifference is horrible and dangerous and uncontrollable. That’s where it’s your responsibility to speak up on behalf of your kiddos. And also to instruct your oldest, (the cutie that she is), to make sure that she knows that type of behavior is NOT ok and that she needs to tell someone if it happens to her or her brother. (That will ensure a little safety because no one has 100 eyes to see everything). If you’re feeling benevolent and patient, perhaps starting a conversation with her and being friendly might open some doors. But it’s not a required thing and it probably wouldn’t be the greatest idea unless you’re able to come to her with an open mind that perhaps her situation isn’t what it seems on the surface. (Even though, again, this doesn’t excuse behavior). I rambled, I know. Who knows if this makes sense. :)In any case, I think you handled it fine this time. I’d perhaps talk to the Y Director and drop Busy Mom’s name if any further trouble erupts 🙂
>I just wanted to come back and add my thoughts on the idea that “it takes a village”. I think the meaning of that statement is being misconstrued. It doesn’t mean it takes a village to point out what children of other parents are doing wrong.For me, it means it takes a village of SUPPORT to raise children. So if people are willing to step up and be the whole village, not just the disgruntled and complaining village, then go for it. whenever a teacher came to me b/c of my son’s unacceptable behavior…and they did, I’ve never met a teacher who wouldn’t…they were also there with support to help me through it.
>As with your earlier post about Gym Mom, I often wonder what mom’s like this are thinking. I am often looked at by other mom’s at my son’s mother’s day out because I actually make him mind while the other mom’s kids are running around, pushing other kids, etc.We have a similar situation with a kiddo in Sunday School who just will not obey anyone, even his mom (who happens to be one of the people in charge). Mom just laughs about his behavior and walks away. How do you discipline a kid like that? It’s not like she doesn’t have other kids either. In fact, she has 5 others who are well behaved. This little boy used to be in our son’s class and we had our son moved out to the next class up because this kid was so mean to him. So frustrating!
>I feel so terribly sorry for her boys… and just as sorry for the kids that are going to have attention sucked away from them at school in the future, etc, because they ended up in the same class with them. Unfair all around.Some people shouldn’t have kids.
>I feel very sorry for her kids. They obviously are starving for ANYONE’S attention. I don’t think it is the kids who need therapy…I think it is Gym Mom!
>This discussion just makes me so sad. I’m sad for the moms and the kids. I think Amy’s points were quite good, and I would like to add that not everyone has the strength that it takes to be a good parent 100% of the time. All we can do as parents of our own children is protect them and take problems with their care to the proper authorities. Period.
>So why mention that the mom had “dyed blonde hair?” Seems a little self-righteous retro “shameful slut” name calling to me. Not that I condone her behavior at all. “Does you know a dyed-haired woman, Miss Scarlett?! Lawd have mercy!”
>On the note of if and what to say if the situation arises, I don’t know. I do know that some bitch at the Y made a snide comment to the air when my 2yo screamed while I was checking in. Granted my 2yo scream could bring a deaf person to his knees, but dude, say something to ME not to the air. Besides that, C is the sweetest thing in the nursery to other children. It’s me she pitches a fit with. I finally stared the bitch down when she was commenting to another gym member about C about “this awful toddler and her clueless mother”. I said, “Oh, that was me! Yeah, she can scream enough to break glass. I’m not clueless, I’m very well aware and terribly sorry if she ruined your night.” I wasn’t that sorry, but I addressed it. I mean, we do live in a civil society.As for the village thing, I agree to a point. But it takes PARENTS first. The village supports the parents, and if they aren’t engaged in the parenting process, the kids are screwed.
>I’m descriptive. I noticed it. I wrote about it. She’s “well-tended.”
>Shoot, I’m with you!! I am so tired of parents who let their kids get away with murder. If I was one of the ladies watching kids at that gym I would seriously complain!dawn
>OH YEAH, I also wanted to comment on your other post about That Stephen. When the kids tell me someone did something wrong I always ask if that child apologized. If they apologize I make sure my children know it’s their job to forgive. If they didn’t I say, well it helps your heart to forgive them anyway, even if it was a rotten thing to have done to you. After all, my kids aren’t perfect all the time and I don’t always know about their misbehavior.
>When I was younger I worked as the child care manager at a private gym in Wisconsin. I managed a few girls who were around my age & we were all in school working towards our education degrees. The gym manager (Tommy) was my boss, and he really only seemed to care about getting in is workout – on company time of course. There were 2 boys, ages 3 & 7, who were holy terrors from hell! All of us (teachers & parents) cringed when we heard them come screaming down the hall towards child care. We dreaded these kids more than anything! These kids would spit, hit, kick, cuss, etc. In all my years working with kids, I don’t know if I’ve ever encountered kids as poorly behaved as these two. Oh, they were angels in front of their mom & dad, but as soon as they were out of their parent’s sight, all hell broke loose! I was pretty timid at that young age, not really knowing how to bring this to the parents’ attention. Surprisingly, one of the girls I worked with went to the GM one evening when I wasn’t there. A couple nights later I was working, watching a handful of kids by myself, including those 2 hellions, when their mom came in crying & told the boys to get their things together. I asked her if everything was okay, and in a pissy-huff she told me, “No, everything is not okay, because Tommy told me you all seem to have something against my kids and they are not welcome here anymore.” Blah, blah, blah! To make a long story short, mom & dad got a rude awakening & those kids were out of our hair, leaving us to be happy & attentive child care providers to the remaining & usually well behaved kids. I’m not sure what happened after that, but mom & dad never came back to the gym again. I go to the Y in Maryland Farms & I know they have a child care director there. I bet the Bellevue Y does too, and I highly recommend bringing this to their attention. If the director can’t remedy the situation, I’d bring it to the GM. There is absolutely no reason you as a parent should have (more than normal) concerns about leaving your kids in your gym’s child care. And no reason the staff should be left to deal with these situations.I had a pretty unpleasant childhood w/ an absent father & a mother who was in one abusive relationship after another while I was growing up, but they never would have let me misbehave like these kids. I may sound a little old fashioned (although I’m still in my 20s), but I don’t care. I simply see no reason to allow your kids to misbehave for other people. I have 1 sister & 4 step-sisters, and although we all parent a little differently, we all agree that, “If my kid is acting up & I’m not around to deal with it, you better put them in their place!”Sorry for the novel, but I’m kind of a rambler & wasn’t sure how to condense this all.And I think the “dyed blonde hair” comment was probably mentioned as a writer’s detail. That’s not the issue at hand. iwantperch@aol.com
>Wow! Gym Mom gets away with letting her kids misbehave and she is never held accountable. Perhaps it is time for our society, as a whole, to set boundaries about what is acceptable behaviour. Perhaps you might tell her that her son is too rough and she doesn’t seem to be aware of his actions. Preface it with “I hope you don’t think I’m being rude but… This woman obviously doesn’t know how to parent but I don’t think you should feel sorry or pity her. I doubt if she even answers your question or acknowledges the problem. Until someone makes a big deal out of it and/or sets a boundry, she simply won’t care and she won’t stop.
>Here is my theory. Children only act in that manner if it gets them what they want. So obviously, it does. Probavly at home, where Gym mom gives in at the siightest suggestion of a temper tantrum. However, she chooses to stand her ground when others can see her. When it doesn;t work, and we all are subjec to a screaming cild.
>I think this woman clearly has issues that move far beyond the realm of bad parenting…..
>The “right” thing to do, is just what the nursery worker did (hats off to her!) Whoever is in charge of the environment; nursery worker, preschool teacher, Sunday school volunteer, is the one that is responsible for setting limits for the children.Setting limits includes clearly telling them what the boundaries are, what is allowed and not allowed, and following up with consequences when those are not met.In these instances, the natural consequence is to tell the parent that the child is not adhering to the rules, and they can not stay, as it causes a safety risk to the other children.Plain and simple, those adults who are in charge of children, need to be the adult and remove the kids when they are out of control, whether it is difficult to say to do or not.I would have jogged on over to the gym manager to let them know that I really appreciated the nursery worker’s maturity and responsibility, and that it made me feel safer about bringing my child, knowing that she was enforcing a level of behavioral standards in the nursery.
>PS. This doesnt necessarly solve the issue re: gym mom and her kids….she may get the hint when they arent allowed anywhere, and shape up and start parenting…or she might not….but that’s her issue. As long as the facilities dont allow her to get away with dropping off her misbehaving boys, the other kids should be safe.
>It does seem like if someone confronted her for a change, she’d at least be forced to think about it, although I’m sure she’d act totally pissed off. I know if someone told me something negative about one of my kids, I’d probably be incredibly defensive- but I’d also obsess about it privately for days.iwantperch, I appreciate your story. You make a good point and it is a good idea I think to go to the childcare director if we continue to have problems with the older one. It made me really mad when I realized that I was trying to figure out if I could go to the gym at a different time in order to avoid putting Punky in there with him. It’s hard enough for me to get there at all, let alone changing my schedule for some bad kid who may or may not be there.I love your comments on this. Keep em coming!
>There’s not much I can add to this conversation that hasn’t already been said. But I do have two cents to put in anyway. :)If you’re the praying type, you can offer up a prayer for this woman and her poor, precious children. It might be hard, but since her behavior seems to really bother you, I suggest you befriend her. Her “eat shit” expression might truly be that, or it might be the way she hides her true feelings. Some people have had to learn to really repress emotions because of the reactions from their families. She’s not unaware of her children’s behavior, judging from her response to the worker who came to get her from the gym. I’m not trying to defend her at all; I totally disagree with how she handled it. I’m just saying that there’s almost nothing women can bond over like the misbehavior of their children. Maybe if you can set yourself up as her ally, you can actually influence her and be a positive factor in both her life and her children’s lives. Her children are little terrors who will probably become big terrors unless something changes. You can look at it as being one of those “coincidences” that happen now and then. And a couple of years from now, the two of you will be laughing about how you thought she was such a bitch. Or, she could hate you for trying to be nice. You never know. But at least you’d made an attempt to be a part of the village that we do all need to raise our kids and remain sane.Good luck!
>This is not rocket science. The mom is not a genuine, caring person if she didn’t immediately feel mortified and offer apologies on behlaf of her son PLUS tell her son to tell Punky he was sorry. I know the type. We have them at my Y, too. Don’t ever let anyone get you down for teaching your children personal responsibility. If she had stepped up to the plate and told her child right then and there to straighten up, you would have felt much better about it. She needs to grow up, and so do all of the people who want to act like you don’t have a right to explain the basics of life to Punky, whether someone else who might be embarassed by their own guilt is listening or not.Seriously, if you think I would value Stephen being embarassed in public MORE than I value my baby thinking I will protect her and stnad up for her, you are out of your ever loving mind. Way to go, and THANKS from another mom who would totally do the same thing!
>How frustrating! It really is hard to deal with all the out of control kids around these days. I see it at the park a lot. I’m one of those moms who will tell kids how are misbehaving to stop it if no parent steps in, especially if they’re endangering other kids. One day at our playground recently a bunch of older boys were all over the toddler playscape with wooden swords, what the hell?!? I just told them all to get out of there with the swords, and kept telling them until they got sick of hearing me. I couldn’t help wondering where on earth their parents were, and what they were thinking letting them run around with sharp wooden objects on the playground? Go do that nonsense in your own backyard. You are perfectly within your right to protect your child and to tell her whatever you need to tell her to keep her safe, even if the offending brat hears you. I don’t buy this “kids should never have their feelings hurt” crap, if they’re behaving like little terrorists then they need to stop it and if their parents don’t have the brains to stop them, to me it’s every parent for themselves. Kids who act out like that need to know from SOMEONE that their behavior isn’t acceptable.
>This is why I don’t put my little kids in gym childcare. To me it’s like leaving your child at an IKEA’s childcare facility…who would do that?? I care about my kids too much!
>Oh goody self-righteous anonymous! Fewer kids at the gym is better for the teacher/child ratio anyway. Thanks! And didn’t know IKEA had child care – sweet. Time to dump off my daughter and go shopping. Cripes woman – get off your pedestal.
>I still remember a time (I’m about to turn 37) parents THANKED others for informing them that their kids misbehaved. If I ever got into trouble in the neighborhood (I’m not even talking about hitting or pushing other kids, but just usual kid shenanigans) my parents would usually have known about it before I even got home because Mr. or Mrs. So-and-so would have picked up the phone and told them. It certainly kept kids in line knowing that people would inform your parents what you had been up to and – this is key – that your parents would side with them.
>I just don’t get what’s so difficult about this. If there’s a pattern of behavior that puts other children at risk, discuss with the nursery manager how they handle the situations. Let them know that you’re concerned by their lack of action. If you don’t get a satisfactory answer about the policy and adherence to it, go to the facility director.I’ve got to say, though…boy, are people eager to make a lot of sweeping generalizations about a family based on two second-hand accounts of these kids’ behavior. Maybe it’s just a matter of Mom having a tough time figuring out appropriate naps that causes the kids to appear difficult these two times Lindsey has seen them. Maybe the two year old is teething or going through a growth spurt. Maybe the five year old has some jealousy issues. Who knows? Assuming that the kids are neglected and attention-starved based on Lindsay’s two accounts is jumping the gun.
>By the way, anonymous…don’t knock the IKEA childcare ’til you’ve tried it. My kids LOVE it, and it lets me focus on what I’m doing rather than have to constantly, “don’t touch that!”, “get off the chair!”, “where’s mummy’s prozac?” My only complaint about childcare at places like the gym and IKEA is the fact that people leave their sick kids there. That’s the reason I ended up dropping my Y membership. I went to the staff and the management, and, despite the published policy, the nursery staff was unwilling to tell people that obviously ill children would not be accepted for care.
>Sorry but I have to give a “Snort” to the idea of inviting this woman and her spawn to your house. Yeah let them abuse your children in your own house. That’s a great idea. As for befriending this woman, just suggesting this is so idiotic in so many ways. I say talk to the director or gym manager and get it over with. And make no mistake, you will probably have to deal with these same unruly kids for years. I know. We have had problems with some kids every year in school.
>mama said, honestly the first time I was willing to entertain the notion that Gym Mom was having a bad day. But the second time? It was even worse than the first. I’m leaning toward the “There’s a problem here and it could have an impact on my kids’ safety and well-being” camp. So yes, if I hear one single thing about Stephen from my daughter ever again, I will definitely take it to the director. I have a feeling that my complaint would be corroborated by the nursery staff. Not to get hysterical (I realize that shit happens- this is the same place, after all, where I went to pick Punky up one day, NO ONE COULD FIND HER, and she was finally located locked in the bathroom with a little boy. Thank God I had seen her through the window only a minute before, so I knew she hadn’t been in there long. And the Y staff handled it incredibly well, actually ordering a dutch door and closing that room to kids until it arrived and was installed so that that could never happen again, and the director called and apologized and apologized to me again in person the next time I was there, saying it was absolutely unacceptable- TANGENT!), but I’m also my child’s advocate and I take that seriously.As for befriending her, yes, it is a great sentiment. I have actually tried that before with the thought of “This woman clearly needs a little moral support in the parenting department and the right thing to do is be her friend” and let’s just say it didn’t go well. Not only did the wild child problems continue, but once I was “friends” with the wild child’s mother, I felt obligated to invite the wild child to kid gatherings. And it was not good. In fact, it was very, very bad and it affected my friends’ kids as well, making me feel guilty and conflicted. I think a better plan for me would be to resolve to be kind and friendly to these kinds of women when my own kids are a little older. That way, maybe I can take a bit of a mentoring role? I don’t know.. It’s hard.I can’t believe I’m writing about all of this. Come back here in three years and I’m sure Bruiser will be biting, hitting and kicking every kid within spitting distance and I’ll be defending MYSELF.
>This might get winded, so I apologize in advance. I responded to the first post regarding gym mom and her monsters and I agreed…a little embarrassment wouldn’t have hurt. Shortly after that was posted, I found out I was the mom of one of those types of boys. The type of child that other moms shake their heads at. My son is almost four, is speech delayed and became a behavior problem for us at home, and then apparently at school. We’d pick him up from preschool and the teacher would give us a “oh he had a good day” or “Oh he had a bad day” which was deceiphered into “he doesn’t like transition and puts up a fight” sort of thing, but nothing more.Things started to get worse at home and we were in the process for a speech evaluation so I asked about a behavior evaluation as well. Well, let me tell you, the school district was very accomadating.I had to fill out a form on his behaviors and have his teacher fill out a similar form, and when I got it back, my son looked like the spawn of Satan. Now, don’t get me wrong, I had no delusional thoughts that he was this perfect child, but I never knew it was that bad. So, we started making alot of changes at home with him, being on top of him for everything and not letting him get into everything and within about a week, his behavior started to change. Well, except on the days he went to school. During the eval process, I found out from the child psychologist that observed him, that when he acted out in class, the only things his teacher and the assistant did was sit him in his chair. they never tried to redirct him and at one point, they weren’t even paying attention and the child pysch. stepped in to handle a situation.Had I known he was doing the things on the form like throwing himself on the floor and flailing his arms and unintentionally hitting other children (teachers said that he never purposely hit other children, it was usually during tempertantrums), I’d have pushed for this much sooner. I’d have pulled him from the class or something but we were never given an even inkling it was so bad. Kids didn’t like him. He played alone. I felt horrible. He had no friends.It’s gotten better though. Since then, we’ve switched him to a smaller class, with specially trained teachers who know how to handle his types of behaviors and we’ve changed out discipline styles at home. Basically, the point of this is…it is our jobs as parents to make the changes in our children. If we see them doing something, we are supposed to stop them. NEVER in my entire life would I have allowed my children to carry on the way Gym Mom’s boys did and actually still stay there. I’d have been embarrassed. I’ve removed my older girls from situations when their behaviors were less than desirable. It is just not acceptable.
>I’m one of those parents that doesn’t feel bad parenting other kids. It does take a village, and I want to set that example for my children. I’m not pushy or mean or judgemental or any of those things, but if I see another kid misbehaving towards my kid, or if another kid misbehaves at a playgroup I’m at, or somesuch, I have no trouble jumping right into it (‘Johnny, that’s not how we behave in this house. Can you please apologize to Suzie?’). On the flip side, I’m grateful and tolerant when folks parent my children. If my kids have done something to merit the attention, they should hear about it.Parenting other *parents*, however… yikes. This is a tough one. Clearly this woman needs a talking to, but unfortunately there’s no good way to do it. Speaking with the Y director, or the childcare folks (obviously when she’s not around) seems like a good first step, if only to feel them out and see how they as the caregivers are viewing the situation.
>Hmmmm…what does a childless bachelor have to add here?Just my own subjective opinion.At my gym, the kids are taken care of in a separated, closed room. So whatever havoc is or ain’t going on in there, as parents deposit and pick up kids, I can’t say.I see this from a different perspective: I work in an industry that does NOT cater to kids; in fact, if they are under the age of 21, they really have no business where I work. However, because a hotel is a part of the business, kids are allowed in a limited manner. As a security department supervisor, I have plenty of worries to deal with on my particular shift; bad, inattentive, thoughtless parents shouldn’t have to be one of them. But they are.At least I have short-term remedies for some of what I occasionally witness. And my authority to act on my watch is, within established guidelines, unquestionable. I can only apply a standard that the law says I can, in situations that mirror the one Lindsay witnessed. I am courteous once, firm and direct if I must intervene a second time, and thoroughly uncompromising if a third issue arises. I don’t hold the kids responsible; they have parents for that. And I accept no excuses for or from those kinds of parents. None.Take that for what it’s worth. And yes, I do have nieces and nephews. They don’t hate me, so I’m not a complete ogre.
>Just to clarify, Lindsay. I’m not saying that there’s no pattern or that the woman at the gym behaved appropriately in the situations you describe. There’s no question that the woman handled these situations poorly. My point is, however, that all the commenters who assume that neglect is the cause of the pattern based on two second hand accounts are being a little hypercritical. Kids go through phases. They can last a week. They can last a year. The “terrible twos” didn’t get that name for nothin’. As I read it, your post was about how YOU should handle the situation, not to encourage everyone to finger point.Using myself as an example, people who only see me trying to get my terminally pokey children where we’re going do not see the same person those who are actually involved in my life see. The only thing one of these folks may have ever heard me say to one of my kids is, “My God! Do I have to light your pants on fire to get you to move faster? We. are. late!” These outsiders probably do think, “That stupid, unorganized, time-impaired shrew! Why didn’t she wake up her kids earlier? Get them to bed earlier?” I don’t know how children born to two Type A’s who despise lateness can avoid developing a sense of urgency…but they are both completely oblivious about time no matter what we do. (I’m not looking for advice, by the way. Just giving an example.)
>My 14 month old is going through a shrill screaming phase. Let me give you an example:We just flew home from visiting my parents last night. (Yes, we ARE constantly on airplanes.) The proper way to indicate you want to put the window shade down is to say in (an angelicly soft voice), “Mama, that sun is very bright and is straining my eyes. Please let me put that window shade down.” Instead, young son points at shade and screams (at a volume level identical to the jet’s engine) “AAAIIIIEEEEEEEEEEE!!!” Strangely, he uses this same form of communication when he wants his sippy cup that is somewhere on the floor, the tray table down, the tray table up, his shoes off, my glasses, my hair barrette, to push the button to ring the flight attendant (extra fun because it makes a DING sound throughout the plane), to show me where my ears are, and something evidently hovering in the air a few rows up that I never could figure out.Anyhow, I got quite a few stares and glares from the other passengers. They probably thought “What a bad Mom. Her kid is obviously either hearing impaired or a complete brat.” One couple, who had a teeny tiny baby made a pointed comment to each other that they wouldn’t let their baby act like that when he got older. I think they thought I couldn’t hear over the screaming. As I was picking up the sippy for the 985th time, I glanced over at their little boy slurping down his bottle and thought “JUST WAIT.” Then the tray table slammed down on my head, and I pulled a muscle in my neck trying to sit back up. Sigh.So maybe sometimes it is true that kids are just kids and are going through horrible phases and don’t necessarily have bad parents. However, I was all asses and elbows trying to figure out some way to get my son back into control, and it seems that Gym Mom is making no effort. Or maybe I just wanted to whine.
>Oh, Gertie. I think my time is coming there. Bruiser is the loudest child that ever lived. I swear he is. I’ve had a difficult first year, simply because he’s so damn NOISY. And I like a little peace and quiet now and then.Anyway, I think most veteran parents sympathize with the ones who clearly are having a hard time with their little ones. But yeah, it’s hard to sympathize with the ones who refuse to acknowledge that their little ones are difficult.And mama said, thank you for clarifying. I get what you’re saying now.
>When I read your account of what happened with GM and how she handled her kids, my heart actually hurt, thinking about her sons. Sure, her kids may be “out of control” or however you want to spin it, but they need her attention and I really think, given what little I’ve read about her and her reactions, she’s taken a hands-off “I can’t deal with them!” approach and it only makes the kids do more unruly stuff to attract her attention! Come on! That she just plopped her son down on some mats and walked away, while he was crying after her is awful in my book! And I’m a mom of a 3-year-old and admit to not holding it all together sometimes, but it’s crazy to think if you keep walking away from your kids, somehow, the problem will resolve itself. I’m being judgemental, I know, but these kids depend on us as parents to set the tone, the boundaries etc. The need us to let them know what’s right and what’s not in this world and to be supportive of them no matter what. I mean, think of the message she is sending her son by walking away from him in times of stress! It obviously isn’t working for her. She needs to rethink the plan here not only for herself, for others, but mostly for those little boys. L. you’re right in that you shouldn’t have to worry about your daughter in that room every time you go there, fearing that this kid is going to do something again. You’re right that the mother should be more supportive and proactive with how she handles bad behavior in her kids. But she’s not going to be. She has proven that a couple times to you and possibly others. Do you honestly think no one has ever said anything to her? That the Y is the only place these kids act up?? The real victims here? Her kids. All you can do is control YOUR actions and what happens to your child. I think about this all the time–putting my son in situations I cannot control and what this will mean, the consequences etc. Simply put, it’s the sucky part of parenting no one REALLY can explain, and even if it were explained, you won’t get it until you go through it. So, if something happens again where your daughter is harmed in any way to any degree, I think you SHOULD say something to her because you are an advocate for your daughter. If she cops the same attitude, which I would bet is going to be the case, then unfortunately, it may cause you to reevaluate when/where you workout. I know, it’s not fair and it makes me mad to even suggest it, but again, you can only control what you do and can provide what’s best only for your children! Good luck!!
>I had never read about the Gym Mom until to day. I read this post first then went back to the first post about her. It all makes so much more sense why you said what you did, and felt to strongly after that last encounter with her. I have no idea what to do, but i do support you in your actions and the feeling to protect and teach your own children.
>Lindsay, after the big buildup, I was expecting a contraversial post! Who’s going on the Pissed List for this one? Moms Who Don’t Care How Rotten Their Kids Are?
>Oops, make that controversial.
>dont worry. when she has to go visit them in jail someday maybe she will wonder why.
>I kind of have to agree on the whole gym childcare/Ikea child care thing. I can’t imagine leaving my children with someone I don’t know. But that’s just me, and that really isn’t the issue here. Gym mom doesn’t care WHO watches her kids and Lindsey just wants her kids to be safe.
>To those of you who say you’d never leave your kids in a Y nursery, I think the idea is scarier than the situation.At my old gym, the daycare was a room with a glass door about 50 feet from where I worked out. A television monitor was set up by the exercise machines that gave everyone a full view of what was going on in the nursery and I watched Punky like a hawk. :)At the Y, the same women are there every day and they know Punky and Bruiser by (real) name. I feel completely comfortable with them watching my kids. Also, the nursery has windows in every room so that anyone can walk by and see what’s going on- which Hubs and I do regularly. I think most nursery situations are like that at gyms. Plus, you’re there. You’re not leaving them and going somewhere else. You’re just in a different room. I think it’s actually really good for my kids to do that a few hours a week, to be honest. And it’s definitely good for me!
>Our Y is the same way. Anyone walking by can look in the windows of the nursery and see what is going on. The ladies there do a very good job and everything is orderly, clean and well run. It gives our son a chance to interact with other kids and play with different toys while we are still in the same building.It also keeps my SAHD husband sane and in good shape. MEEEEROOOOWW.
>They way I see it society as a whole caters to these children because it would hurt their wittle feelings. Instead of thinking that maybe if someone said something that the kid would get an idea that we were not put on this earth for his enjoyment. It doesn’t appear that his mother is doing anything to help that.I speak to the child if they are doing something that might get them hurt or they are hurting my child. I am not mean about it, but I am stern and clear about it. I have, yet, for any parent to tell me anything. Then again, I always apologize for my kids misbehavior and do my best to keep it to a minimum when it could inconvince another person. Society has enough “ME, ME, ME” types.
>Skunkfeathers – Just a nod – your nieces & nephews probably don’t think you’re an ogre because you (and/or their parents) give them structured & appropriate discipline when needed. My 1 niece (age 4) & 5 nephews (ages 6 mo., 2.5 / 5 / 9 / 13 yrs.) are the same way – I’m having 4 of them come spend the weekend with me just to hang out. Kids need structure & proper discipline not only so they don’t make life hell for us adults, but also because it helps them grow up to become more productive members of society who don’t throw a tantrum whenever life doesn’t go their way.To anyone who says that L needs to find another gym, you are out of your mind. Why should she have to go somewhere else because GM doesn’t function properly in these situations? Crazy I tell you, crazy. iwantperch@aol.com
>She should find another gym if she doesn’t want all children to be welcome at the one she belongs to now!!!!!! Where is your compassion everyone!!!!
>The other week we took our kids to the local germ-infested nightmare that is a McDonald’s playland. They were having a great time until some boys who were a bit older then my son decided to hit him. He came out crying and he and my daughter (who is 10 to his 3) pointed out the boys that hit him. His parents just looked at us with that ‘eat shit’ grin you described.I let it go and told them to just keep their distance. 5 minutes later, they did it again. I asked the parents if they intended to do anything about their preshus wittle dears hitting my son and they shrugged and continued grinning.I’d like to say I was the bigger person and we left for happier places.But I’ve never been very good at just letting people’s kids beat on mine.I turned to my 10 year old daughter and told her that the next time those little bastards so much as raised a hand in her brother’s direction she could just go ahead and pound them one.They left.It’s not that I want to promote violence with my child as a solution to such issues. Note that we did attempt to get their parents to do something first. It’s that I can’t imagine a time when it will ever be ok to tell my child to simply stand back and watch when someone else is hurting her brother.
>Reading this post brought back memories of years ago. I used to go to a place where a mother of three young boys would often go. She’d get there by nine and would spend 2 hours, the max time, “working out”. Her boys were EVIL and my son was clocked in the head once by a flying truck. She’d even bring them when they had stomach viruses. YES! THey’d throw up in the room and another would make a remark about how the kid was up all night barfing. My son got three stomach viruses in 5 weeks.She’d dump them off and wear the same bland smile. I wanted to rip her spine out. But then I realized she didn’t HAVE one. SHe couldn’t even stand up to her children — they’d hit, slap and scream at her.I got one the manager of the gym because they clearly weren’t enforcing the “no sick kids” rule. I tried staggering my schedule but after awhile it became a hassle. There were other problems with the gym (roof that leaked and left puddles on staircases, bad smell, broken equipment that wouldn’t get fixed.) so I just left after that.Just saying… I feel for ya.